A begets b, which begets C
In our example….
Coffee is hot, we are told this
We read about the hotness of coffee
We learn more about this when we pick up the coffee cup.
It is here scripture stops.
It is here where Gnosis begins.
It is here where we drink the coffee.
Scripture tells us nothing about the taste of Coffee, just that it is hot.
…
Thus it is the same with Holy Scripture. It tells us what tradition knows God to be like. It tells us that God has a beard, five arms and is name George.
Then we pray and meditate and have interaction with God
Scripture has ended. Gnosis has begun. It is here where we hear God’s voice, we see his third nipple.
Scripture thus acts like a sign post. But it is the “reader” that must actually walk along the road that the sign post is pointing to. The sign post, no matter how much we insist, is not the road.
This is how “mysticism” differs from religion.
Hope that helps
“Both scientia sacra and all the ancillary traditional sciences in
Islam may be said to issue the fountainhead of the inner wisdom
contained in the Quran in the same way that Hinduism considers the
Traditional sciences to be the limbs of the Vedas.
Spiritual hermeneutics is the means whereby the intelligence,
Sanctified by revelation, is able to penetrate into the heart of
revelation to discover the principle truth which is the very root
and substance of intelligence itself.
In this process the microcosmic manifestation of the Intellect,
which is the source of inner illumination and intellection,
unveils the inner meaning of that macrocosmic manifestation of the
Intellect which is revelation or more specifically Sacred Scripture.
Moreover, the same truth pertains mutatis mutandis to the inner
meaning of that other revealed book which is the cosmos itself”
– Seyyed Hossein Nasr (”Knowledge and the Sacred “).
You can’t see that God has a beard or you would come to the conclusion that it was not created in 6 days.
What to do?
Let me try to ask it more provocatively: “How do you know something is “holy” scripture and not rubbish?”
What to do?
Well Gnostics understand that cosmology is mainly just a way of understanding things…an approximation.
For example God having a beard is actually a part of Judaism. In kabbalah we find the idea that God has a beard. There are texts describing God’s beard hair….I kid you not!
But why a beard? The beard is SYMBOLIC. It is a symbol of wisdom, of many separate “parts” that together make a cohesive whole.
Thus it is in Gnosticism, God’s nipple and the fact he is called George are symbols.
In order to understand the nature of George and the 6 days of creation we must ascertain what they mean. Again these are sign posts.
For example it would be like thinking about running. We spend days and weeks thinking about running. While and before we actually go running. The purpose of thinking about running is to “help” us actually participate in the Olympics. Thus we are focused, focused upon the Olympics.
Gnosticism teaches that Gnosis is experiential knowledge. Thomas Aquinas actually defined mysticism as experiential knowledge of God. Now Gnosis goes further, it states in order to know something we must become it. Thus in order to know the Olympics we must become it. In order to know God we must become it. This is where Gnosticism differs from “Christianity” or more “accurately” ..”churchianity”
So the six days, whether God is called George or Susan is like thinking about running. In themselves they are only important as aides, helpful things. They are of God, but Gnosticism posits the idea that once we have begun or have learned to actually know God fully, there is no 6 days or George..There is only God, which is ineffable.
As the Zen guys say:
“Those that know do not speak
Those that speak do not know”
So really for Gnostics there is no “worrying” about whether we can actually see God’s beard or if there were 6 days…..as those are like paint brushes. Brushes are great, but an artist paints a picture they don’t paint brushes.
………….
How do you know if something is holy or rubbish?
Does it enable Gnosis?
Does it fit in with the universal language of the divine that is expressed in many traditions, that when one begins to learn it, one can see it very easily.
For example the classic journey of the Buddha is also the classic journey of Christ:
A child is born into a privileged or special family
They leave this family
They wander in the desert of forgetfulness
They gain the magic turnip
The magic turnip is remembrance of who they are
They return home
This pattern can be seen in many many places….The Gnostics find this in the Acts of Thomas. This Apocryphal text is used by Indian Christians (in India). This text contains a hymn supposedly sung by Thomas (the apostle) in prison. The hymn of the pearl describes the above journey.
We can find this journey in
Alchemy (the search for the philosopher’s stone)
Sufism, and related to this in the story of Aladdin
Star wars, the story of Anakin Sky walker
Etc.
It is these universal symbols that help us know the difference between
“Spot and the magic ball” and something that is “holy.”
“Most people think that God is infinite. But that is incorrect. The infinite is that which goes on and on in space. However, God created space and is therefore not bound to the laws and limitation of space. If we describe God as infinite, what we really mean is that God is spaceless. Infinite is the opposite of finite, while spaceless means ‘free from the limitations of space.’ The One who is spaceless is free to be both beyond space and within space simultaneously. Therefore, God is beyond this finite world and yet God completely inheres every inch of the earth.
Most people think that God is eternal. But that is incorrect. Eternity would be that which goes on and on in time. But God created time and is therefore not confined to the limitations of time. If we describe God as eternal, what we really mean is that God is timeless. The eternal is the opposite of the temporal, while timeless means ‘free of the limitations of time.’ The One who is timeless is free to be both beyond time and within time at the same time. Therefore, God is both beyond time and yet within every moment, completely lifting it with His entire presence.
And when we say that God is One, we really mean that God is nondual. One is limited; it is the opposite of many. But nonduality is free of the confines of one or many. Nonduality is free to be beyond the many and within the many. Therefore, God is beyond you, me, and everyone else in this world, and yet also within us.
How can the unlimited be expressed within the limited? How can the unlimited God be expressed within time, space, and finite beings?
If the unlimited could not be expressed within the limited, then that would be a limitation. Ultimate freedom must include the freedom to choose to be restricted. Otherwise freedom wouldn’t be free, it would imply a limitation of choices—you could not choose to be restricted and limited.
This is the meaning of the kabbalistic principle called the tzimtzum—the divine self-restriction. Kabbalah says that God withdrew His Endless Light in order to create a place for time, space, and finite beings. God then filled time, space, and the diversity of beings with a restricted light so as not to overwhelm His creation and obliterate its existence.
Therefore, according to Kabbalah, God is free to be both beyond time and within each moment, beyond space and within every inch, beond multiplicity and within billions of finite human beings. Bod is free to be manifest as one hundred percent transcendent and yet also one hundred percent immanent.”
—David Aaron (The Secret Life of God: Discovering the Divine within You )
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GospelofThomas/
The following document is considered public domain and is free to distribute with blessings by the author. His only stipulation is, if you use it commercially please donate money profits to charity.
Please note the author confuses the Ginza Rba with the canonical Prayer book of the Mandaeans (Qlasta)
The author of this text is Rick Van Vliet
Seek & You Will Find Mandaean Parallels to Thomas
Introduction
The term “Seek and You Will Find” is central to the Mandaean
followers of John the Baptist, and their most important book, the
Ginza Rba, (the author cites Qlasta not the Ginza, in his error) mentions it repeatedly. If you go to a Mandaean Website,
it’s likely to be on the first page prominently. It’s also in the
Gospel of Thomas, and to a lesser extent, the Christian Gospels and
other misc. places. They are all related, and this gives us evidence
on how they are related.
There are several related pairs, often found alongside the Seek and
You will Find pair, that are also found in most of the above. For
those able to see this in color, they are color coded throughout so
they can be spotted in context at a glance, which is part of the
design.
The Five Seek and Find Related Pairs
• Seek and you will find.
• Find and you will reign/rest
• Speak and you will be heard.
• Ask and you will receive.
• Knock and you will enter.
Mandaean Qulasta (here the author incorrectly cites the Ginza Rba, instead of Qulasta, a common error that could be corrected if the aurthor had bothered to do his research fully)
The Mandaeans have 4 of the 5 pairs, leaving out “Find and you will
reign/rest” It has “Knock and you will enter” only once, and that one
is paralleled in Thomas, Matthew and Luke.
30 And they shall say “Seek and find, speak and be heard!” and kiss
their hands.
33 “Is there (not?) room for us in the Place of Light? For those that
seek (ask) of it find, and those who speak of it are heard”.
35 I sought to lift my eyes, shoulders and arms towards the Place
which is all life, radiance and glory, the place where which is all
life, radiance, light and glory; a place where they who seek of it
find, those who speak of it are heard and to those who ask of it, it
is given them, day by day and hour by hour.
35 The first (generations) sought and found: let those that come
after seek, and they will find. Seek and find for yourselves, for
your friends, for your friends’ friends and for those who love the
great Family of Life.
35 Those who seek of Him find, and to those who ask of Him it will be
given. For to him that standeth at a closed door Thou wilt open the
closed door.
35 “Is there no place for me in the Place of Light, since those who
seek therefrom find, and ask thereof and it is given them?”
41 It praiseth and speaketh, “Every Nasoraean who reciteth these
secret sayings will seek and find, will speak and be heard seven
times daily. And seven sins will be forgiven him in the great Place
of Light and Eternal Abode.”
We will seek and find, speak and be heard. We have sought and found,
have spoken and been heard in thy presence
And those who seek from Him shall find, and to those who ask of Him
It will be given.
my chosen, ye sought and ye found,
moreover ye shall seek and ye shall find.
ye sought and found, my chosen ones,
as the first (souls?) sought and found.
He will seek but will not find,
And ask, but nought will be given him,
Because he had in his hand and gave not,
He will search there in his bosom and will find nothing.”
Etc. etc. etc.
Gospel of Thomas
Thomas has “Seek and you will Find” three times, while the Synoptics
only have it once each. An indication it’s closer to the Mandaean
original idea…
P.Oxy. 654.5-9:
[Jesus said,] “Let the one seek[ing] not stop [seeking until] he
finds. And when he finds he will marvel, and marveling he will reign,
and reigning he will rest.
Thomas 2
Jesus said, “Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When
he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will
be astonished, and he will rule over the All.”
Thomas 92
Jesus said, “Seek and you will find. Yet, what you asked me about in
former times and which I did not tell you then, now I do desire to
tell, but you do not inquire after it.”
Thomas 94
Jesus said, “He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let
in.”
Synoptics
…But the Synoptics match that one common with all, “Seek and
Find/Knock and Enter” saying of the Mandaeans better, because it also
has the Ask and Receive part.
Matthew 7: 7-8
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock,
and it will be opened to you. “For everyone who asks receives, and he
who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Luke 11:9-10
“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you
will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. “For everyone who
asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it
will be opened.
Mark 11:24
“Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask,
believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
Matthew 21:22
“And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
Gospel of the Hebrews
This particular reference to the Gospel of the Hebrews is clearly
talking about Thomas. It has the same reigning and resting attached
to it.
Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis i. 9. 45).
Even (or also, in the Gospel according to the Hebrews is written the
saying, ‘he that wondereth shall reign, and he that reigneth shall
rest’.
id. (Strom.) v.14.96.
For those words have the same force as these: He shall not cease from
seeking until he find, and having found, he will be amazed, and
having been amazed will reign, and having reigned will rest.
Dialog of the Savior (9-12, 20, 79-80 …)
And traces of it are in the Dialog of the Savior. No doubt from the
same common source, but more distorted.
His disciples said, “Lord, who is it who seeks, and [...] reveals?”
The Lord said to them, “He who seeks [...] reveals [...].”
Matthew said, “Lord, when I [...] and when I speak, who is it who
[...] and who listens?”
The Lord said, “It is the one who speaks who also listens, and it is
the one who can see who also reveals.”
[...] what you seek after [...] inquire after [...] within you [...]
I say to you, let him who possesses power renounce it and repent. And
let him who [...] seek and find and rejoice.”
But when you see the Eternal Existent, that is the great vision.”
They all said to him, “Tell us about it!”
He said to them, “How do you wish to see it? By means of a transient
vision or an eternal vision?” He went on and said, “Strive to save
that which can follow you, and to seek it out, and to speak from
within it, so that, as you seek it out, everything might be in
harmony with you.
The Gospel of John
John, the anti-Thomas only has the one missing from Thomas, the greed
one, “Ask and Receive”.
John 14:13-14
Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may
be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do
it.
John 15:7
If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish,
and it will be done for you.
John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you
would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that
whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
John 16:23-24,26
In that day you will not question Me about anything Truly, truly, I
say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will
give it to you. Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask
and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full…In that day
you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request
of the Father on your behalf;
Summary & Conclusions
One of, if not the most common/important phrases in the Mandaean
(followers of John the Baptist) religion, “Seen and you will Find” is
found in the sayings of Jesus. Not surprising, since at one time,
Jesus was one of them.
It is found several forms in Thomas, but only one in the Synoptics,
which is expected, since Thomas is far closer to the original than
anything else. One more case of close parallels between Thomas and
the Mandaeans.
But, that one phrase all have in common, the “Knock and Enter” one is
different in Thomas, the Ask and Receive part is missing. That could
be because it was edited out somewhere down the line. We can tell
from the Greek/Coptic versions that it happened. Who knows why,
perhaps because Thomas repeatedly saying you shouldn’t pray, which is
like asking. It’s also possible late Mandaeans altered it to match
the Christians they were well familiar with, but since it’s also
found in several other places not paralleled by the Christians, it’s
unlikely.
So, we have one more confirmation, that there really was a Jesus, who
really was a follower, at least to some extent, of someone named John
the Baptist, and that there is genuine information about Jesus in the
Synoptic Gospels, and the Gospel of Thomas. Some of the words of the
historical Jesus, in this case, the ideas of John, survive.
